By margit |
“Good morning, European sisters and brothers!”
An interview with Łukasz Lisak
- Please introduce yourself to the readers of the Eurolandpost!
My name is Łukasz Lisak, and I live in western Poland. In the past, I studied Genetics and Experimental Biology, while also working in a hotel as a doorman. After graduation, I was supposed to begin a PhD, but due to external factors, I was unable to pursue that career path and decided to study medicine instead. I am now a medical doctor currently completing a postgraduate medical internship. When it comes to my hobbies, I have always been interested in history and politics, which was rather unusual among my peers. These interests have stayed with me to this day. In history, I find Antiquity, the Age of Discovery, and the 19th and 20th centuries particularly fascinating. When it comes to politics, however, I have become rather tired and disappointed with it in recent years ...
You have the Polish and German flags on your X account. Why?
It reflects two things. First of all, I am Polish, but of mixed European origins. My roots reach Poland, the German lands and Russia. I am a very European product, haha. Sadly, I don't speak German, which has been bothering me for quite some time, and I hope to catch up with my ancestors' language one day.
Secondly, Poland and Germany share a very difficult past. Since the beginnings of Polish statehood, there have been clashes between the Duchy and later Kingdom of Poland and the Holy Roman Empire, followed by conflicts with the Teutonic Order, Prussia and, eventually, Nazi Germany. We have a complex history, with its darkest chapter costing the lives of around 20% of Poland's pre-war population and around six million European Jews. Our brothers and sisters died simply because of their religion or nationality. Something unimaginable, but can we really be so sure that it could never happen again, when we see the rise of the far right in Europe? When we see people who are unwilling to stand up for other Europeans?
Nevertheless, I believe that German-Polish reconciliation is perhaps even more important than German-French reconciliation. We are both Central European countries, we have far more in common than one might think, and together we have the power to shape the future of our Continent.
What does ‘Free Poland’ mean in this context?
I put the slogan “Free Poland” in my X display name during the time of our previous populist right-wing government, which I believed was restricting personal freedoms and pushing Poland away from the European Union.
On 15 October 2023, the democratic parties won a majority in the Polish Parliament. However, my country still had a right-wing president from the previous ruling camp. Presidential elections were held again last year, and sadly, another politician associated with the previous government was elected. As a result, he has been obstructing parts of the legislative agenda of the current government. Therefore, I decided to keep “Free Poland” in my name, and I am afraid it may stay there for some time ...
You advocate a federal European state. That presumably means you’re part of a more or less large minority in Poland too. Why is that important to you – and what is the prevailing view on this in Poland?
As a history geek, I came to understand already in my childhood that European countries cannot successfully face the emerging global world on their own. After the First and Second World Wars, Europe simply declined in relative power. Of course, the development of the welfare state in Western Europe after the horrors of the Second World War was a tremendous achievement, but it also came with a geopolitical price: European countries gradually became junior partners in global affairs. France remained the main European country willing to pursue strategic autonomy, and under President Macron, this idea has increasingly been extended to the European level. We no longer have vast colonial empires. We do not possess unlimited supplies of natural and critical resources. What we do have is enormous intellectual potential: science, technology and know-how accumulated over centuries, together with the wealth created by previous generations. We need to think about how to use these assets to build prosperity for future generations of Europeans.
The same applies to defence. We should ultimately build a strong European military. Look at our enormous combined military spending: instead of having one navy, one air force and one army, we have roughly 27 national military structures, each with its own chains of command, procurement systems and bureaucracy. This creates enormous duplication and inefficiency.
We should also strengthen European defence industries and invest in the development of our own weapons systems, from drones and fighter jets to tanks and aircraft carriers. Human lives are the most precious resource because they are unique and cannot be replaced. I know that our brave soldiers are prepared to die for their countries, but a wise leader should not ask how many of his people must die to achieve victory. He should ask how many of his soldiers can still be alive after that victory.
European unity, however, is about much more than politics and economic interests. I remember Poland joining the European Union in 2004, and I also remember what it was like to live outside it. Trust me, and here I would address young Eurosceptics in particular, you do not want to go back there. Young French people have many of the same dreams as young Germans or Poles. What they often lack is an understanding of politics and of the fact that the simple solutions offered by populists and Eurosceptics simply do not work.
Europeans also share a remarkable amount of common history and ancestry. European populations are genetically relatively closely related, with genetic variation following geographical patterns across the continent. But what makes Europe a civilisation is not our DNA. It is our culture. European civilisation has been profoundly shaped by the Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian traditions, whether we personally believe in them or not. They have influenced our moral and philosophical vocabulary for centuries. Our legal systems were deeply shaped by Roman law; our philosophy by thinkers such as Aristotle; our religious and cultural traditions by Christianity and Judaism; and even our rejection of religion is, in many ways, part of Europe's intellectual history, particularly through the Enlightenment.
When it comes to Poland, the situation is more complex. Acording to some I came across 26% of Poles favour deeper integration of the EU, while 32% would prefer to maintain the current level of integration. At the same time, 23% would like to strengthen the role of national states, 5% would support leaving the EU, and 6% favour a multi-speed Europe. So although federalism itself is not a majority position, support for EU membership remains very strong.
And yet, you are right: European federalism has often been downplayed, and not only in Poland. I believe national politicians sometimes have an obvious personal interest in preserving their own powers, and this can stand in the way of deeper European integration. Such short-term thinking may have serious consequences in the future. Nevertheless, I believe it is the duty of European federalists to promote these ideas and explain what they actually mean. Federal Europe does not mean simply abolishing national identities or sovereignty. It means moving sovereignty to the level at which it can be exercised effectively, securing our global interests, strengthening our security and giving Europeans the ability to shape their own future in the difficult decades ahead.
I was very impressed by your heartfelt reference to ‘European brothers and sisters’. Does this term of address really apply to all Europeans, regardless of their political persuasion (from left to right), from east to west, and from north to south?
I am very happy you liked it! You and all other Europeans are my siblings, whether xenophobes and radicals like it or not. On X, I have come across plenty of people who looked down on me and even insulted me simply because I am Polish. For the record, I have no inferiority complex, and perhaps they should start working on their own unjustified sense of superiority.
Yes, I mean literally all Europeans: from west to east, from north to south, and across the entire political spectrum. I don't care who they vote for, as long as we share the common goal of building a federal Europe. Once we have achieved that, we can have perfectly normal political battles over taxes, public spending and everything else. I actually look forward to those debates, I just want us to have them within one common European home.
How do you view the current relationship between Germany and Poland, and between Germans and Poles? What could be improved?
I sincerely believe that German-Polish relations are among the most important bilateral relationships not only in the European Union, but in the entire Western world. Our relations today are generally cordial, but I am concerned by the growing tendency among far-right political forces in both countries to undermine decades of efforts to bring our relationship to a higher level.
Polish-German relations should be based on mutual respect, and our governments should coordinate their international efforts, foreign policies and approaches to deterrence. Constant demands for German reparations, despite the Polish government's 1953 declaration renouncing further claims, as well as occasional threats or claims concerning the return of Wrocław (Breslau), Gdańsk (Danzig) or Poznań (Posen) and the revision of our borders, certainly do not help. We live in one Europe, and we should accept the territorial order we have today and work together for the prosperity and security of both Poles and Germans.
I think relations between our peoples are actually better than relations at the political level. I remember my stay in Cologne during an Erasmus internship while I was studying Genetics, and everyone I met was extremely cordial and welcoming towards me. Hopefully, that mindset has not changed since then.
How do you assess the threats to European unity posed by extremist parties in our countries? What can we do about it?
I take these threats extremely seriously. We can see growing support for radical political movements across Europe, and this may have serious consequences for the political stability of our Union. France is facing significant political polarisation, Germany is experiencing the strongest challenge from the far right in decades, and Poland's future government could be considerably further to the right than the previous one. All of this may have serious consequences for European unity and could certainly encourage those who want to weaken or ultimately destroy the European Union.
Personally, after speaking to many of their supporters, I believe that their popularity is driven largely by people's fears about their future and their disappointment with the current political establishment, which has failed to solve some of the problems that matter most to them: migration, a lack of opportunities for young people, the housing crisis and growing fears that war could spread across Europe.
If we want to counter extremism, we must address the fears that fuel its popularity. We need to give people a sense that they are being heard and understood, while offering credible solutions to the problems they face. Simply calling people extremists or telling them that they are wrong will not make their concerns disappear. We need to win the argument by demonstrating that democratic European politics can actually deliver.
Can people who were born outside Europe become Europeans?
Yes, absolutely. People born outside Europe can become Europeans, provided that they are willing to integrate into our societies, respect our laws and embrace the fundamental values of European democracy.
I used to believe in a completely open Europe, but my views have been challenged by terrorist attacks, growing concerns about the safety of European women and minorities, and hostility towards some of our fundamental values among parts of the younger generation with a migrant background, particularly towards the LGBT community.
So yes, people born outside Europe can and should be welcomed and accepted, but integration has to work both ways. Newcomers should respect the societies they are joining, just as European societies should give them a genuine opportunity to become part of them. There should be no expectation that our fundamental democratic principles or laws will be replaced by religious or cultural norms brought from elsewhere.
European civilisation has been profoundly shaped by the Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian traditions, as well as by the Enlightenment and many other intellectual and cultural influences. Whatever our individual beliefs, our laws must remain the common framework for everyone. Freedom of religion is essential, but no religious doctrine should stand above the law.
Is there a political book by a Polish author that you would recommend?
To be completely honest, I don't think I am the best person to recommend political books by Polish authors. I have never been particularly fond of reading political literature, and my interests have always been much more focused on European history and international politics.
However, if I had to recommend one Polish author, it would be Witold Gombrowicz, and in particular his novel Trans-Atlantyk. It is not a political book in the traditional sense, but it contains a fascinating and often ironic reflection on Polish identity, patriotism, the relationship between the individual and the nation, and the burden of national myths.
Gombrowicz wrote it while living in Argentina after the outbreak of the Second World War, and his perspective as someone living outside Poland gives the book an unusual distance from Polish political and national debates. I think that makes it particularly interesting today, when we are still discussing what it means to be Polish, and, more broadly, what it means to belong to a nation while also being part of a wider European community.
So perhaps this is a slightly unconventional answer to a question about political books, but I would rather recommend Gombrowicz than pretend to be an expert on Polish political literature.
Thank you very much for the interview!
The interview was conducted by Margit Reiser-Schober.